I don't see why this is so important. Hate to sound too conservative but I really believe in the traditional version of marriage. How about healthcare, the economy, a stupid war.......these should be the issues. later dater.

So, Tennis is right on it being subjective. I, personally, see nothing wrong with homosexuals or allowing them to marry. I don't think that I, or anyone else for that matter, has the right to tell them that their marriage is any less important than anyone else's or that their love isn't worthy of it (which is, in essence, what most of you are saying). I understand churches reserving the right to decline performing a marriage, as it's almost always going to be against their belief system, but I dont think that the government has the right to tell the courts that they cannot perform a legal marriage between 2 consenting adults, especially if those courts see nothing wrong with performing it. Updated to remove anything about adoption process, after a certain someone amended their comments. Mine were only out of context and I seemed to have confused several people in the process. I'll stick to gay marriage as a topic unto itself.

God never ment for us to marry those who are your same gender, people who are gay are not bad, their decsions are

Why would you want to further piss God off by getting married? God's already pissed off that you're screwing each other.

With America's population increasing only because of immigration and a lot of it illegal. It would be a shamefull sight to have gay marriage in the united states. Why does america need gay marriage? Why do gays need gay marriage? Why is it so important to reward a behavior with marriage? Most people think being gay is bad behavior. Marriage has been used for many ages to promote a healthy life style, such as minimal risks of disease, taxe bennifits to promote having children and providing a future for america. Why do gays need tax bennefits when they can't breed and leave a legacy? With gay marriage there is no future or no future legacy's to promote future generations. I'm willing to bet, If gays were given a country how long will it last or would it just crash after life expectancies run their course. How would you settle a gay divorce, who is the man and who is the woman, or is it just a mochary of marriage that shouldn't have existed any how. Some one tell me how gay marriage benefits the people of America or even the world. The gay culture in the end is no more than a death culture of our nation. It is true I don't like gays, I find it repulsive, immoral, and there is deffinetly something wrong with being gay. Put the gay movement back in the closet where it belongs.

Married in a big church wedding in '95. All our family and lots of friends, co-workers, and the congregation present. My High School students and their parents all sent congrats when I announced I was pregnant. Got a great kid. Above the curve. He thinks he's lucky to have two Moms. But when we go visit the grandparents and uncles and cousins, we pray none of us end up in a hospital, because our family wouldn't even have visiting rights, and our son could be made a ward of the state. We've spent a combined 30+ years helping other people's kids, working and paying taxes, but can't get basic protections for our own child, a citizen no less. We're already married, just need our legal status and rights,

Update: In the UK last year, gay marriage (partnerships) were legalised. What has been the effect?: it is estimated that the attendant economic benefits to the country has been a staggering 629m a year! and businesses providing weddings have flourished. The Army has seen the first gay marriage on its territory and has provided accommodation and the number of heterosexuals now entering marriage has INCREASED for the third year running...nobody has been turned gay, no animals hurt, and my sister has not tried to marry the horse. Rather blows all those excuses of a dive in morality out of the water, doesn't it? As for Caits comments: they are called reproductive organs because you can reproduce with them if you want. What's that got to do with marrying someone you love? Spain has just put into place laws to offer gay marriage. Many countries around the world are looking at the issues, some of them are fiercly Catholic countries like Spain. You know, if you deny someone something , they want it even more. Have it there as an inherent freedom and it is no longer an issue. To PBeavr: to me, loving someone and killing someone are two different things. That should tell you one is acceptable and the other isn't. A man has the freedom to do both however. I personally wouldn't want to legislate for the second, but see no hesitation in legislating for the first. Update to EO: Who told you it was one percent of the population? Recent research shows 1 in 10 men (willing to identify themselves) are gay and possibly 1 in twenty is bisexual. In fact, the figure could be higher. Out of a population of say 280million, 50% will be male=140m. That's 1.4m gay men in the US alone, not counting the women and bisexual people. Sounds like a lot of people to me. Besides didn't you say statistics can say anything? Doesn't mean you shouldn't provide for those who are. It also depends on which empirical evidence or research you believe. 2% of the population is higher than the figure I gave! Another Update: But they are being denied a right...the right to marry the person they want to. (another consenting adult so let's not get into incest here) Update Lance: If you read my message again, I said let's not extrapolate the right of two consenting male adults to marry who they love into concerns of incest and polygamy. Nobody is suggesting we need to legislate for incest. How is this the same thing? You talk about the radical left...this a human civic issue and it has been the Christian Democrats and the Conservative parties here in Europe that have actually instigated legislation for gays. (Of course, liberal parties have built on this as we have progressed, though it has often been socialist parties (Nazis and Communists) that have placed severe restrictions on gays. This issue is no longer considered as divisive over here, and therefore it seems to show itself only as one of geography and not morality. It is obvious we have different views of social mores and sexuality in many parts of Europe and these rights are given as fundamental to human expression and freedom in Europe. This does not mean we legislate for paedophiles and incest...it is time to stop confusing the two for that argument simply no longer stands up. Interesting too that should talk of the Laws of the Universe and then completely argue against them, the laws being that whatever you believe to be right and true become so. It's what WE as a SOCIETY decide is right that has influence on us all.

Narrow minded, immature people will use any excuse to justify their discomfort with same sex couples. Arguments ranging from keeping the birth rate up (I'm straight, and two guys/girls having their loving relationship endorsed by society isn't going to 'make me gay'!!) to religious justtification (The Bible says it's wrong. Well about a paragraph before that it says we should stone women and neighbours who sow mixed crops...the Old Testament isn't a book of laws, if it were, it would be worse than Iran) can all be countered with rational debate. As for "protecting the sanctity of marriage"...how come Britney Spears can get drunkenly married in a shotgun wedding, and then divorce two days later while two women or men who love each other deeply and have been together for twenty years have less rights? Also frequently cited is the belief that marrying someone of the same sex is equal to marrying an animal or child. To suggest that gay people inheritely lack morals or share the same values as people who commit bestiality or paedophilia is INCREDIBLY offensive, childish and shows an absolutley mind-numbing amount of stupidity. EVERY SINGLE argument I have ever heard against gay marriage lacks thought out reasoning, so in reality they are just smokescreens to hide the fact the person is uncomfortable with sexuality. The President should show supreme ability to show reason and act in a just, fair and impartial manner. Banning gay marriage does NOT reflect that. Love isn't as discriminatory as our laws.

My sister-in-law has been living with her girlfriend for over 20 years. Together they have built a significant relationship built upon love and mutual respect. They have raised an extremely intelligent and emotionally stable son (who, by the way, just graduated CalTech at the top of his class) and they have also forged a tens-of-millions of dollars bank account through hard work and endurance in the IT industry. They are both in their forties and are retired, fun and justifiable role models (let it be societal or via amalgamation). The moral: Judge every relationship for it's merit and not just on it's preference...you may just find yourself surprised.

Heterosexual and worried about how gay marriage may destroy your hopes of a meaningful heterosexual union? - relax, or at the very least bury your head in the sand and ignore the issue and stop interfering with others and their aspirations to their particular flavour of conjugal bliss. Live and let live. Move on. This really should be a non-issue.

I think gays should have the right to marry just like everyone else. They work and pay taxes just like the rest of us. Our children are educated with their tax money. Their tax money helps repair our road and highways. They contribute to society just like the rest of us. Therefore, they should have the same rights as the rest of us. Religious belief is not a requirement for marriage. Atheist have the right to marry and they don't even believe in god. Jews don't recognize chirst as the savior and they can marry. As for reproduction--gay couples usually don't. So who is actually reproducing all those gay people? It's better that gays marry each other than marry heterosexuals just to fit in. It's not fair to either person, and heaven forbid if there are children involved.

Why is it that these people who have this SHAME FETISH always use the same argument? If you allow gay people their rights, next thing you know they will be marrying the local sheep! How about those heterosexuals you see online having sex with horses? How about all those pedophiles? Ninety percent of those are heterosexual! How about all the wife beaters and child molesters who have sex with their own kids? That's what happens when you allow heterosexual to marry! And these shame fetish freaks always use the same disclaimer. "Don't get me wrong!" Yeah right. No we got you alright. You can't get laid, so you try to make people who are getting laid evil. And you know studies have been done recently showing that those who fear homosexuality the most, those who find it the most disgusting, are those who have dirty little secret fantasies about homosexuality. Go figure. And so I leave all you narrow minded shame fetishists who think heterosexuality is the meaning, the way the truth and the light of the entire universe with this.... . What do you think caused your heterosexuality? 2. When and how did you first decide you were a heterosexual? 3. Is it possible that your heterosexuality stems from a neurotic fear of others of the same sex? 4. Is it possible that your heterosexuality is just a phase you may grow out of? 5. Isn't it possible that all you need is a good gay lover? 6. Heterosexuals have histories of failure in gay relationships. Do you think you may have turned to heterosexuality out of fear of rejection? 7. If you've never slept with a person of the same sex, how do you know that you wouldn't prefer that? 8. If heterosexuality is normal, why are a disproportionate number of mental patients heterosexual? 9. To whom have you disclosed your heterosexual tendencies? How did they react? 10. Your heterosexuality doesn't offend me so long as you don't try to force it on me. Why do you people feel compelled to seduce others into your sexual orientation? 11. If you should choose to nurture children, would you want them to be heterosexual, knowing the problems they would face? 12. The great majority of child molesters are heterosexuals. Do you really consider it safe to expose your children to heterosexual teachers? 13. Why do you insist on being so obvious, and making a public spectacle of your heterosexuality? Can't you just be who you are and keep it quiet? 14. How can you ever hope to become a whole person if you limit yourself to a compulsive, exclusive, heterosexual object choice, and remain unwilling to explore and develop your normal, healthy, God-given homosexual potential? 15. Heterosexuals are noted for assigning themselves and each other narrowly restricted, stereotyped sex-roles. Why do you cling to such unhealthy role playing? 16. How can you enjoy a fully satisfying sexual experience or deep emotional rapport with a person of the opposite sex, when the obvious, biological, and temperamental differences between you are so vast? How can a man understand what pleases a woman sexually, or vice versa? 17. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex? 18. With all the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiraling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals? 19. Shouldn't you ask the fringe straight types, like swingers, Hell's Angels, and Jesus freaks, to conform more? Wouldn't that improve your image? 20. How could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual, considering the menace of overpopulation? 21. There seem to be very few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed with which you might be able to change if you really want to. Have you considered trying aversion therapy? 22. Do heterosexuals hate or distrust others of the same sex? Is that what makes them heterosexual? 23. Why are heterosexuals so promiscuous? 24. Could you really trust a heterosexual therapist to be objective and unbiased? Don't you fear he/she might be inclined to influence you in the direction of her/his own feelings?

The real problem posed in this question is what we should investigate: the nature and purpose of marriage and human sexuality in a good society to produce human happiness. We should not be debating whether people who practice a particularly nihilistic and valueless sexual perversion should be allowed to pretend that marriage is an institution they are entitled to partake in but what is the fundamental meaning of marriage, human sexuality, human happiness and human love. The path to true human happiness from my observation certainly isnt to be found in homosexual activity or in the lives of practicing homosexuals. It isn't a sheer accident or subliminal homosexual desires that most criminals engage in homosexual activity in prison but immediately revert to heterosexual behavior when they are released. It is a moral corruption and choice not a genetic or behavioral inclination. Another point I have observed about people in the main stream of society who practice homosexuality is that homosexuality is an all consuming concern for them and their identity. The focus is merely the accentuation of an altogether narcissistic vile morale outlook. Most of the individuals who act out as homosexuals I have had met, associated with and worked with are clearly some of worst morally corrupt individuals I have ever met. Homosexuality is just one of their many sins and flaws. If they stop being homosexuals tomorrow they would still have a very wide chasm to cross before they become fully integrated, moral or decent persons. Well, what then is marriage meant to be?

This is simply a narcissitic perversion looking for validation. Can a society survive by recognizing, subsidizing and supporting such a evolutionary illogical sexual orientation? It hasn't worked in producing true happiness or an orderly society in all of recorded history what makes us so much smarter or better? It is just moral cowardice and the will to power that impells the left to push this incoherent amoral nonsense to keep up preoccupied while they destroy our culture and civilization.

Lets first get something straight no punt intended. The church not government invented marriage because of religion there came marriage. So why do some of you think the people whom believe in the bible have no say for something that they started. What god has joined together let No man put a sunder. Not a judge has joined, God can only join to people together and you who do not respect that do not respect marriage. Tax breaks are not given to any two people living together, only to married couples. And most of what the gays want is to be accepted; this attack on marriage is about morals. They want their abnormal behavior to be accepted as okay, more than that, they want even the almighty to bless their choice to be lets say different for now. This is not a new thing or people going forward, this is a very, very old thing and we are going backward. A people that don't know its history are domed to repeat it. There have been previous cultures that accepted this life style and it weaken them to destruction. Greek and Roman Empire gone and I know you atheist don't want to accept Sodom and Gomorra. Goverment and Politics! You might say what do this have to do with politics? Taxes.....And now I read some of you do not care about defying GOD. You may not believe, but most of us do. Keep turning your back on God and he will turn his back on you. When I grew up gay was wrong and now the Devil is having a field day. He's getting rid of the ten commandments, under god, nativity scenes, christmas, prayer, jesus, now man & woman, what next under god we trust. It's on the money of the greatest nation and you wonder why the US is so Blessed. Oh I forgot you hate your country! But neither the less, I think the Devil is here attacking us from within convincing us whats bad is good and good is bad. Some people are doing the devils work. We are now living in a cesspool (sex crazed) and no more rules, anything goes with no fear of punishment for being wrong. Hope there is no God and if so you are on the right side of this evil. (The weapons of evil, trickery, deception, confusion, division

Jojodoc - If you had met many of the families I know, who happen to be based on a homosexual love - you would have a much harder time writing them off as "against the lord." The love between them speaks for itself.

I want to know why homosexual men/women feel it is so necessary to get a religious binding of marriage when they are commiting a sin. They are already going against the Lord so why do they need to feel that it is so important to be married, is there really any reason? NO! Homosexuals are just wasting churches time when most likely the church is even against what the homosexuals are doing! This is a political issue only because the American people feel that this is either wrong and should be stopped, or that this is perfectly fine and it should be allowed. That os why the government needs to step in.

What is this? Is this topic a joke? Don't get me started. Of course they should be able to marry. Maybe not marriage per se, but at least the same rights as normal couples. Married couples have many rights that homosexual couples deserve. If I am correct, the only basis for the argument against homosexuality lies on the testaments that it is morally wrong, propagates HIV, and is a blasphemy. (Applicable to the monotheistic religion set, Buddhism and Hinduism take a "don't love, don't hate" view on homosexuality.) Well, how is it a blasphemy? Let's look at this in a different way. Two people love each other, and wish to get married. However, a group of people says this is wrong because a 2000 year-old text says a supposed omnipotent being supposedy blew up a city for supposedly being openly homosexual. Lots of supposing here. Don't mean to burst bubbles, but the Bible doesn't even specifically mention what despicable act the city of Sodom committed for him to turn them into atomic dust, just saying it was for "unspeakable acts". For all you know, this could mean that they went around saying "OH MY GOD" and "DEAR GOD" and other phrases taking his name in vain. Secondly, claiming it is morally wrong is pretty touchy in itself. Hey, homosexuality is two guys/girls making love. If they both consent, how is this different from normal sex? I'll tell you how: it isn't. And it doesn't spread HIV faster than heterosexuality does. As a matter of fact, heterosexual sex actually has rates of HIV spread FASTER than homosexuality does. (Look it up.) On top of all this, the Constitution proclaims a little something called "SEPARATION OF STATE". It means religion shouldn't influence government. Saying homosexual marriage should not be allowed is an indirect violation of this. QED.

i think its alright to get married but not in like a cathlic church. i dont know what the other religions say about that, but im pretty sure cathlics are against it cus of something in the bible.. so go get married on a beach or sumthing

Yes, gay marriage should be accepted. Times are changing. And it's hard to accept for everyone, because, by rite, change is difficult. But the fact remains that being gay has always been around, since the beginning of time, and, in the recent century, it has become more and more accepted. It is time to allow gay people the "right" to marry. They are no more undeserving of love or happiness than you or me.

okay..so you should be able to marry whoever you want EVEN if that person is of the same sex. i don't love other girls, but if you are happy then why should we care if you like the same sex?

We have enough problems trying to keep straight marriages together why should this be an issue. Every one has the same right to marry any one of the opposite sex that they are not closely related to. That has worked for a long time, why fix what is not broken.

The only problem with same-sex marriage is that it has been tainted so badly by heterosexuals, who made the mistake of claiming that disaster for themselves. Maybe gay men and lesbians can bring some sanctity back to the institution.

Let them marry. I wish everyone would stop being such hateful people...they are not hurting anyone, they just want (and deserve) what the rest of us have

i hate anyone who is ignorant enough to think that gay marriage is going to somehow hinder your enjoyment of "straight" life. i say sex is sex and you should get it any way you can/want to!!!

Yes, our government is supposably separated from church, but the Bible is also what our country is founded on, whether people like it or not. Our Constitution was somewhat based on the 10 commandments. Who told us that is was wrong to kill? What told us it that is was wrong to cheat on your husband or wife? Do you think we should turn our back on the Bible now? Our country was based on it and is now, I belive, protected by God. If we legalize this our nation will be in deep trouble. It is already screwed up enough that abortion is legal. If we legalize this what will happen next?

way to go veng .i remember this do you

Nobody gives about what some 2000 year old book says about today's matters. The Bible should have no say in a government supposedly separated from religion. Not allowing gay marriage is like not letting blind people marry. EDIT: What's up with these unhelpfuls? Read this link. http://gamemakergames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic =10858&view=findpost&p=118636

Frankly, I'm appalled at anyone daring to object to gay marriage because the Bible says it's wrong. Oh really? You mean, Leviticus 18:22, which says Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. So, I suppose you are equally in support of Leviticus 20:10, which says And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. Are you telling me you support the widespread execution of all adulterers? No? But....the Bible says so!!! And how about Deuteronomy 21:18-21, which says If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... all the men of the city shall stone him with stones, that he die ..... So, that means you approve of the widespread stoning execution of children because the Bible says so?. Really? Amazing how these loudmouth fundamentalist anti-gay hypocrites suddenly fall silent when this stuff is brought to their attention. Well, please... stop using the Bible to justify your murderous attacks on gay people and gay marriage, when you can't even follow what it says yourself.

So much for the sanctity of marriage you religo-crits! The number one cause of death of pregnant women in George Bush's America is MURDER. Don't believe me? Do a little research. There is no sanctity in heterosexual marriage and there hasn't been in decades. From Marilyn Monroe and Britney Spears, to Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich, you people need to look at yourselves before concerning yourselves with people who you don't even know. Mind your own damned business.

Government has little or no business telling private citizens whom they can and cannot marry. Why should I have to register with the government to obtain a marriage license? As long as I am forming a legal bond with a competent adult party, I don't see where public officials need to get involved. We're not talking about bestiality or statutory rape. Marriage is between consenting, competent adults. If I want to marry another man, I don't see how that becomes anyone else's business. My sexual orientation or preference of choice is a private matter that does not require intervention from a dictatorial source or my concerned neighbors. Last time I checked, this wasn't the People's Republic of China. Individuals who advocate Constitutional amendments to limit marriage really need to ask themselves if they want to live in that type of an authoritarian environment. The United States is about self-determination and liberty, not authoritarianism and the intermingling of government and religious values.

We have surely to respect others. But others don't have to impose their stupit unpunished crimes with arrocgance on the shinest mountains. I think that homosexuality is a crime against humanity. I wonder why people would care about trees, monkeys, helephants ... survey and care not about the human and the humanity. Homosexual are forcing us to accept them. But let's remember that homosexuality had caused the downfall of many empires and civilisations on old days. I'm affraid homosexual - this horror - shall cause the destruction of all the efforts of the modern civilisations. I'm not dark seecker. But I want to say something religiously important for us in the West and for the rest. The Bible says : 1- You man should not go to bed with man sa you go to bed with women.(O.T. Lev. 20:11-18 (*13*)) 2- People who asked Lot to give them the strangers to enjoy with where Homosexuals. They were the first in that town to face the holy anger of God (the strangers were angels) before the total destruction of Sodome and Gomorre towns.(O.T. Gen.19 : 1-11 ) 3- In the the book of Revellations (N.T.Rev. 21:8.) we are told that, ...Homosxual will not meet God Do please compare this text with the first one to understand it better. Those 3 arguments assure us that Homosexual is not accepted by God since the begining to the end of this earth. So if we consider the Gay Marriage, I think that this is not normal at all. Althought we tollerate their existance (of the Gay). But they don't have the right to go trought official public marriage as we know it right now. Nor can we accept that they adopt children. Anyway, Since they don't like the nature as the nature wants itself to be, homosexual don't have to benefit from others people what they culturally refuse to give, trought their stupid cultural and egoistic attituds. If you plant a mango tree you expect mangoes not goyava, nor apple... I don't want them to be killed. They are human beings. But too selfish, egoist... Sorry. Thanks for reading.

It's funny how stupid people can be to believe in all that bible crap. Religion, in particular christianity, is stupid. It's a cult basically. People are brain washed to have faith in it. Jesus was a person, but he never once claimed to be the son of god. This is a fact. Even if he did, dozens of people in his time claimed to be aswell. He was no different from the others, and he didn't have magic powers. It was the Emporer Constatine who originally spread the word that Jesus was a savior. It was all nonsense. On another note, gay people don't choose to be gay. It's natural. Somone here said that being gay was a fashion statement. WHAT an ass-hole.

There are so many more IMPORTANT things going on in the world, and every other day, the Washington Post EXPRESS paper, on the Metro, has a FRONT PAGE article about this subject. I'm sick and tired of it. A few gay people I know are sick of it, too! Marriage between a man and a woman has not proven to be the answer to happiness (nearly all of my friends are divorced). But it's not about that--it's about getting the message heard and accepted. Well, we've heard you. And as long as states not on a coastline are part of the union, it won't be accepted. So enjoy your life together with your companion. And stop shoving this down our throats (the last line is a message to the Washington Post Express)

Yes Gay Marriage does need to be legal, no doubt. Its one of those freedom things, people should be able to marry who they want, why should their sexuality have any impact on who they wish to spend their life with? But the reason I didn't give this five stars because first of all, I believe being bisexual and gay is right now a fad along the globe. Theres now this belief that its 'cool to be bi or gay' which may sound strange but will come in and out of style throughout human culture. I believe that a percent of people who say they're gay or bi actually were born that way. Also, people are forcing gay marriage on the world to fast, there are a lot of religious people who believe gay and bi is bad because of what is said about it in their religion. Gay marriages do deserve to exist, but please give people a little time to adjust!

On the one hand it is a wonderful wedge issue that gets stupid poor folks to vote republican which increases my bank account. On the other had, seems kind of mean spirited and I can't see any rational objection to it. Mostly don't care.

I will simplify this issue for everyone: We are all human beings on this same earth, WE ARE ALL EQUAL AND NOT ONE OF US HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ONE ANOTHER HOW TO LIVE NOR DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO INTERFERE WITH THE PERSONAL RIGHTS OF OTHERS. IS THE HAPPINESS OF GAY COUPLES REALLY HURTING YOU???

I could care less who gets married to each other. Why should heterosexuals be the only ones suffering? This will make divorce lawyers twice as rich.

Lance - noteworthy points. But, I'm still neutral, or if anything leaning toward supporting gay marriage. Gay people are stereotypically promiscuos and become infected with HIV easily due to their form of sex. Might their promiscuity stem from the fact that they have no formal sense of commitment to shoot for? If somebody who knew the truth looked me straight in the face and said minkey, you will never get married, I'd be more promiscuous too. Why not? Now, if we allow gay people to get married, maybe we slow the spread of std's and hiv among the gay and bi population, and among the straight population as well because there's some inter-mingling. OC: I formerly disagreed with gay marriage, but I no longer care. Some people say that it ruins the sanctity of marriage. I would say the high divorce rate is far more damaging to the sanctity of marriage than allowing gay people to get married.

Regardless of your personal religious beliefs on this issue, there is no constitutional basis for gay marriage. This is simply another instance of the radical left imposing its standard of ethics on the majority through nothing less than tryrannical measures from the court system. The constitution, for the knowledge of all the liberals out there, does not define our freedoms through a series of rights. Read the Federalist Papers for crying out loud! For those of you who really know this and simply don't care--please stop claiming you believe in democracy because you don't! If there are no presupposed moral axioms, or even empirical laws of nature that predicate the positive law represented by the enumerated powers of the constitution then why stop at marriage between man and man or woman and woman? Why not brother and dad? Daughter and Mom? Brother and brother? Why not polygamous marriages? There is simply no moral defense nor constitutional defense of outlawing any of the above once gay marriage is legalized by a despotic bench of 5 in the liberal home state of John Kerry. But hell, they're queer! They're here!!..and the majority has to deal with it because that's freedom??? *****Daccory, so following your logic the right is to marry and marriage then is definable by the desire of the individual not the democratic will of the public predicated upon any natural institutions? And therefore the mitigating factor is the consent of those mature enough to exercise said rights. These should thus include incestual relations with brothers, father and brother or polygamous relationships as there are no overriding factors possible (children) and any value placed on such actions would violate the exercise of ones rights. This is where liberalism goes absolutely bonkers. Things simply exist in their rightful place whether we desire them or not and prescribing postive law on the whims of chic moral deconstruction regardless of your religious beliefs paves the way for ruin. It's simply like trying to smash a square peg through a round hole- the laws of the universe won't allow it no matter what euphemism we apply. *******Daccory, you cannot simply assert something and draw imaginary lines in the sand when the logic doesn't follow. What is your criteria for excluding incestual relations between brother, or fathers, or many others, when the PREMISE of your defense of gay marriage is consent? If all institutions a redefinable upon such a premise you would have to include them as well. Your line of thought is downright illogical. And there is no restriction on being gay here. What is at issue is the redefinement of a basic natural institution to comport to a morally deconstructed view of freedom. Far from me needing to extrapolate anything from your explicitly weak defense, your attempts to interpolate causation and allude to anyone who disagrees as being a Nazi is patently disingenuous.********Mickey, following that logic we should pour gasoline on fires because they happen as well. Yes divorces exist for various reasons, exacerbated mainly by the shift in the concept of freedom in this nation: deconstuctional anarchic individualism with a reduction toward natural obligation. Your prescription for remedy is to further the deconstruction? Such is folly.

3rd UPDATE: Apology accepted. I'm not sure there is a federal law which criminalizes gay marriage. Help me out. Specifically, what is the law the pro-gay marriage lobby wants changed? 2nd UPDATE: They have the right to marry, just as I do, just as you do. A man cannot (under the law in most states) marry another man. A woman cannot marry another woman, as has been the law for centuries. They are not being deprived of any right. If you think that that is so wrong then go to work changing the law through the proper process. I suggest you leave the sanctimonious, intellectual arrogance behind as you begin. It usually doesn't win over many undecideds. UPDATE (to Dac): Don't cite recent research as somehow convincing empirical evidence. The number of gays, according to many, many credible surveys (those without a pro-gay agenda) over a long period of time, is roughly 2% of the general population. It has not increased 400% in the past 5 or 10 years. Cite something to be verified and relied upon and I'll investigate it, but what has historically been true remains true today, things like this don't change on a dime, and massive increases like what you suggest, take centuries. Statistics CAN say anything, that is why you have to be careful whose statistics you quote. I'd like to see the gay community polled (by an objective polling firm) to see what percentage of gays give the least bit of a hoot about gay marriage. I'll bet it's less than 40% care in the least. That's a small sliver of the general population, and really a molehill. ORIGINAL COMMENT 1/13/05: The only area I take issue with on this topic is that most of the state laws specify gender. Marriage is defined as a civil union between one man and one woman. If that is so wrong, it's been wrong for a long, long, long time. But if it is so incredibly important that this law be changed, all across the country, for this minute sliver of the population (assuming all 2% of gay Americans want this, which not all do) there is a process to accomplish that. Why are there no state referendi being supported and pushed through the state assemblies and legislatures? You're looking for another Harry Blackmun, and he's not stepping forward. To change the law of the land, in all 50 states, for (most likely) less than 1% of the citizenry, seems like moving a mountain to find a molehill underneath. At the end of the day, you'll still only wind up with a molehill.

Second Update: I have been informed that Eschew's comment was not directed at me, and thus I apologise for my strong words towards that poster. Regardless I hope that we can all continue to discuss this topic with respect and without any name-calling. Update: Eschew, could you please clarify your comment? How do they have the right to marry if the law forbids it?! Secondly, I suggest that YOU keep your pompous, egotistical posts to yourself before you go around calling people names. I am making a point, you don't have to agree with it, but you HAVE to respect the fact that it's MY opinion and not call me names! For the record I AM working to fix this injustice and I don't really care whether or not you or other undecided's find it to be an important issue. ORIGINAL MESSAGE: It doesn't matter how many gay people there are, the fact is that there is NO VALID REASON not to let them marry. It's their right. We live in a free country don't we? If we didn't, this site wouldn't exist. (no free speech and all)

I agree with Mad Hatter's take - it's about equal protection under the law. If gays have the right to go to war, pay taxes, and be held to the laws of the United States, why shouldn't they be afforded the same legal protection afforded by the legal status of marriage as other Americans? To me, the state of marriage is characterized by a commitment between consenting adults. It's not about kids, it's not about sex, it's not about gender - it's about commitment. No reason that gays can't be as committed as straights. As to the argument that marriage is between a man and a woman because it's always been that way - that argument is just not good enough for me. As this is a legal issue, it should make no difference if particular religions have a problem with it. And to those that are against it because their religion is against it, why not just let God handle it?

This issue is part of something called Rights, which is what the United States of America was suppose to be founded on. It took almost 100 years for African-Americans to get some sort of rights and another 100 years for people to acknoledge that. Women didn't have the right to vote until the early 1900's. It is about rights. The right for a man and a man or a woman and a woman to be married.

Gave it one star because I don't think it is important. But I really can't stand these anti-gay marrige comments from people who claim that gays go to hell or that God doesn't want them to marry. That is the biggest load of bullsh!t that I have heard in a long time. God this, God that, God, God, God! I don't give a damn about God okay?! This is about CIVIL RIGHTS not someone's religon! HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT HE DOESN'T WANT GAYS TO MARRY? DID HE SWOOP DOWN ON ANGEL WINGS AND TELL YOU?!?!! Gays cannot HELP that they love their own sex. It is NOT all in their minds. This should NOT be something we are debating at all...but no, SOME PEOPLE just have to get into it and say no, God doesn't want you to do that!

Gay Marraige in other countries isn't allowed. And why is it a big deal here in America?

important b/c of the neo-nazism being spread in this country. i'm not trying to compare, but it wouldn't surprise me if Bush wanted all the gays round up. as for gay marriage, it should be as common as people of the opposite sex. people are just scared children in this country. if they just got on with their own lives and let people live and be happy, they'd see what a non-issue this could be. besides, everyone is 1/2 gay anyway. you big tough men, think about that next time a football game is on, and your get a stiff one in your pants over some quaterback. closet case hypocrites.

I don't understand why this is considered a political issue. I'm sure there are many gay couples who are as committed as many straight couples. They have just as much right as heterosexuals do to legalize and sanctify their commitments. UPDATE: There are too many important issues on the landscape to worrying about something as trivial as gay marriage. I personally couldn't care less.

Gay marriage is harmless. Intolerance, discrimination, bigotry, and disrespect are the real crimes that have the potential to cause harm, disunity, and in some cases violence, for generations to come. In all of the postings in this category, there isn't one message that has noted a practical or substantial negative consequence to gay marriage, just as no one could probably post a respectable reason for not allowing interracial marriage in 1967. For those of you that are already married and oppose gay marriage, I'd like to know how gay marriage threatens your marriage or family. No one is asking married people to change anything about their life or beliefs. Gay people pay more than their fair share of the taxes that defend this country, send kids to school, and pay for the administration of the institution of marriage. Do gay people have the right to marry? Sure they do. But who here wants their daughter to marry a gay man or their son to marry a lesbian? Activist judges? Hogwash. These judges are doing their job - protecting the freedom of individuals to be equal and pursue happiness. It's simple. If legislators can't produce a good reason to prohibit gay marriage, it shouldn't be prohibited. The default in America is freedom. From Jonathan Rauch of the New York Times magazine: A solitary individual lives on the frontier of vulnerability. Marriage creates kin, someone whose first ''job'' is to look after you. Gay people, like straight people, become ill or exhausted or despairing and need the comfort and support that marriage uniquely provides. Marriage can strengthen and stabilize their relationships and thereby strengthen the communities of which they are a part. Just as the president says, society benefits when people, including gay people, are durably committed to love and serve one another.

If you were to replace homosexuals with pedophiles/children no one would give it any thought; it would be considered reprehensible hands-down. Yet some seem to think it's okay for gays to not only be together and get married, but for the rest of society to endorse (and not merely tolerate) these unions, which could potentially discriminate against certain religious groups. Most gays don't believe in God and the bible; the few who do aren't following the bible, which condemns it. I'm going to assume that those who don't believe in God believe in evolution/natural selection. If that's the case, do you (gays) realize that given the laws of natural selection, heterosexuals have every right to negate your unions since you can't procreate and you slow down the evolution process?! No matter which way you look at it, homosexuality isn't beneficial. I believe in holding up God's word above man's.