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Separation of Church and State

reviewed by louiethe20th

louiethe20th
07/23/2007

Separation of Church and State 1

Original comment on: 11-29-2005

 Can anyone tell me where in any of our founding documents you find the words, "Separation", "Church", or "State"? I bet you can't. Anyone who claims they are in there is a liar. You know why? They are not in The Constitution, The Declaration of independence, The Bill of Rights....especially the First Amendment that you probably hold so dear. No, these words are not mentioned in any of our founding documents for this great nation. They were never ratified, nor voted on by the original framers of our Constitution, nor have they ever been a part of any amendment since. The idea of separation of church and state was mention one time by Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists of Connecticut. In this letter, not a founding document, Jefferson was trying to sooth concerns among the Baptist about rumors of Congress acknowledging another Protestant denomination. They were worried that this would be a precursor to a state sponsored church such as they had left behind in England. Jefferson was only stating that there would always be a wall dividing government and the church. He never intended his comments to be used to misinterpret the First Amendment, thus causing the complete removal of all traces of God from society. Read the First Amendment again and see for yourself. 'Separation of church and state' is not mentioned there!!!

*UPDATE* Mainly in response to ProgrammerRingo's comments.

It was Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black who first used the term "Separation of Church and State" in his 1941 majority opinion of Emerson vs. Board of Education. He said, " The First Amendment has erected a wall between Church and State." This was his OPINION and NOT taken from the Constitution.

While the First Amendment does recognize a differentiation between church and government, it does not mean that they cannot cooperate with each other.

In 2005 The U.S. Court of Appeals 6th circuit in a ruling wrote..."The ACLU's argument contains fundamental flaws. It makes repeated reference to the 'separation of church and state.' This extra-constitutional construct has grown tiresome. The First Amendment does not demand a wall between church and state." --To that I say bravo!!!

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ProgrammerRingo commented 868 days ago.
Tell me where, in the Constitution, there is any mention of Jesus, of Christianity, or the Bible. At the same time, perhaps you can direct me to the part of the Bible where the word "trinity" is mentioned. Since it is not literally found in the Bible, it therefore must not exist using your logic.

louiethe20th commented 867 days ago.
Man, reading your comments and posts have me more messed up than John Lennon backstage prior to a 1960's concert.

louiethe20th commented 867 days ago.
I am not arguing that the Constitution validates Jesus, Christianity or the Bible, I am simply pointing out how the libs, ACLU and other left wing, Yoko Ono loving wackos have distorted the phrase "Separation of Church and State." Do stay on subject and try to make other posts more brief if you will.

Victor83 commented 867 days ago.
louie...why are you messing this up with FACTS? lol

ProgrammerRingo commented 867 days ago.
Your immature slaps at me in your responses betray the fact that your arguments do not hold water. I would appreciate it if you would spend more time trying to defend your arguments and less time thinking up cute digs at me ("Yoko Ono loving wackos", "...more messed up than John Lennon"). People don't normally act this way unless their misrepresentations are shown to be wrong and have no other way to respond to their critics.

louiethe20th commented 866 days ago.
I have responded with my updated post and it shoots your misconceptions out of the water my friend.

ProgrammerRingo commented 866 days ago.
You did not "shoot my misconceptions" out of the water because not only are those arguments untrue, but the arguments I have raised here are not misconceptions. Hugo Black was NOT the first to use the phrase "separation of church and state". In his letter to the Danbury Baptists to calm their fears about losing their religious freedom in Connecticut, Jefferson very clearly wrote "wall of separation" between church and state. While you are right in saying that the Danbury Baptist letter is not a founding document, it is important nonetheless because it establishes what the father of religious liberty in our country, Thomas Jefferson, believed about religious freedom in our country. Yes, the church institution and state (government) can cooperate with each other but they may not merge. Finally, the US Circuit Court of Appeals is wrong and should restudy Constitutional law. A layman though I may be, the separation of church and state is not an "extra-constitutional construct"; it's the meaning of the First Amendment which states clearly that the government does not respect the establishment of religion. The "extra-constitutional construct" is turning the First Amendment around to claim that the Christian religion deserves preferential treatment and recognition by the government.
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