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The Bible says that "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female"

reviewed by marks662

marks662
05/16/2009

The Bible says that "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female" 4

I wish I could have gotten in on this sooner. After reading all the comments, I'm dismayed to see how many people (especially Christians) don't understand that the Old Testament laws were for the Israelites some 4000 years ago. The vast majority don't pertain to us today. They were put there to show how God made a covenant with Israel, and there had to be a 1st covenant in order for there to be a 2nd covenant (Christ).
HOWEVER the New Testament also talks against homosexuality (Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

To those who said that the Bible shouldn't be used to create laws, sorry you're too late. That's what our original laws were based on. And it's sad to note that even the non-christian founding fathers (and others who lived at that time) knew the Bible better most Christians today.

But, you don't have to quote scripture to explain how wrong same-sex relations is. Any sane, sensible human being should be able realize that homosexuality a despicable perversion. Should we hate them? Of course not! We should show love and compassion to them, but hate the sin, and certainly not encourage their actions.

Join to vote! 2 Helpful / 1 Funny / 1 Agree / 2 Disagree
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irishgit commented 199 days ago.
(Edited 199 days ago)
Actually, our "original" laws are based on English Common Law, which in turn has its roots in Vendetta law, and Celtic and Germanic cultural practices, all of which pre-date Christianity. The Bible is not, and never was, the basis of English Common Law. In those jurisdictions in North America where the Napoleonic Code is the basis of law (Louisiana and parts of Quebec) the basis there is Salic Law, which dates from early Frankish (and certainly non-Christian) cultural practices.

numbah16tdhaha commented 199 days ago.
To think that those filthy pagans had laws...

irishgit commented 199 days ago.
And damned strict ones too.

numbah16tdhaha commented 199 days ago.
But, but... pastor says that they were ignorant, lawless, immoral barbarians until they were saved!

irishgit commented 199 days ago.
Yeah, go tell that to Cedric the Barbarian after you steal his goat. He'll have a whole pile of laws to discuss with you.

numbah16tdhaha commented 199 days ago.
(Edited 199 days ago)
Pastor told me Cedric used to do unspeakable things with that goat...

irishgit commented 199 days ago.
No doubt. And after he hauls you before the Althang, and gets a judgement of the community against you, he's likely to do some unspeakable things to you. Or your goat.

Victor83 commented 199 days ago.
Git...English common law predates the 10 Commandments...huh??

Gris commented 199 days ago.
(Edited 199 days ago)
Interesting stuff Git, I never knew that. That's what I like about this site, you Learn things.

Mark 666: Try reading Religious Literacy. It's an interesting book you may like it. It has nothing to do with Homosexuality, but it is about why no one knows the Bible these days. (Hint: it's the Protestants fault. ;-P )

irishgit commented 199 days ago.
Vic, that's not the point. The point is that English Common law has its original basis in Pagan laws, not Christian theology. And as to the Ten Commandments, you'll find that a lot of cultures have very similar strictures.

Victor83 commented 199 days ago.
Git...actually, the Code of Hammurabi stands as the basis for all written law.
Gris....wtf? You've been reading too many of SuKing's reviews.

irishgit commented 199 days ago.
Not quite all, but I take your point that it had significant influence on a lot of western written law. The Norse and Celtic legal codes, (while largely oral, had some differences from it, many of which made their way into modern law.) But your point re: Hammurabi is entirely valid, and speaks to essential point that the Bible is not as Marks phrases it "what our original laws were based on" While there are certainly elements of Christian theology that have made their way into law over the centuries, either deliberately or through custom and practice, it is not true that such theology was the foundation of modern legal codes.

irishgit commented 199 days ago.
(Edited 199 days ago)
Is it possible to read too many of Sukings reviews? ;-p

Victor83 commented 199 days ago.
Git...I think your point is that our laws were not taken directly or solely from the Bible. If so...agreed.
And no...no one can read too much SuKings...

marks662 commented 199 days ago.
Let me try to clarify this a little. God's laws given to man (Adam) are the ORIGINAL laws. You can't have morality without God, and law is based on morality.

And the Bible, and religious oppression were the major reason for the pilgrims to come to a new land, and would lead to new laws being formed.

irishgit commented 199 days ago.
Sorry marks, that doesn't really fly. While you might attempt that argument for Christian societies, (although I think its specious there too) you cannot make it for pagan or pre- or non-Christian ones. And the historical facts are very clear about the origins of basic western laws, whether criminal or civil. They are based on Hammurabi, as Vic has observed (who is hardly Christian) and on Pagan vendetta and clan laws that pre-date Christianity.

However, if you are arguing that the Adam and Eve story is the true basis of humanity, then clearly this discussion is no longer one of history, but rather of faith. And faith, I submit, has little standing in law.

irishgit commented 199 days ago.
By the way, I mean that Hammurabi is hardly Christian, not Vic.

marks662 commented 199 days ago.
Of course pagnism pre-dates Christianity.

And without God there would be no humans, and there would be no laws for humans. And anyone who denies there is a God must be senseless -- literally.

Victor83 commented 199 days ago.
marks...I don't just "believe" in God...I think you take my meaning.
However, I think git's point was going to the origin of western law- perhaps the US Constitution.
In other words...I don't think he is questioning God...if you will both pardon me here...

numbah16tdhaha commented 199 days ago.
marks, you ever consider that you might be doing more damage than good to your cause?

irishgit commented 198 days ago.
Vic's right, I'm not denying God. As a pretty lapsed Catholic, I have a considerable intellectual ambivalence about my own faith, but I certainly don't suggest others should have none. And as Vic says I'm simply talking about the historical origins of western law. Whether one regards God having a direct hand in the creation of human life or not, I don't see a divine hand in the various legal codes that have evolved to the present. They're far too imperfect for that to be the case.

marks662 commented 198 days ago.
numbah,
All I can do is speak the truth. :)

irishgit,
Well, the "present" is another story. Today's lawmakers have gone too far away from what God intended. Man has become too independent, arrogant, and ungrateful.

irishgit commented 198 days ago.
Fair enough, although I'd take some issue with the word "become." The Hobbesian in me would argue that independant, arrogant and ungrateful is the nature of man. I also do not have the hubris to believe I know what God intended. That's just me though.

numbah16tdhaha commented 198 days ago.
Truth is a lonely thing when nobody else sees it your way...

Gris commented 198 days ago.
Vic: Point taken, I will try to refrain from posting before I've had a cup of coffee. That said, I enjoy Sukings Reviews, although I think a lot is lost in the Translation.
Anyway, what part didn't you understand? I will try to clarify.


numbah16tdhaha commented 198 days ago.
Well, I just got a message about how I shouldn't respond in a mean fashion when somebody uses a smiley. My ass, when somebody is being coy and stupid with me I can respond how I choose, and if marks wants to be a victim and act like I'm some bully or something, you haven't seen mean yet, dude. So far I've been rather civil. :) (remember, that shit there means you can't make a mean response)

irishgit commented 198 days ago.
(Edited 198 days ago)
Hobbes: "The life of Man is nasty, brutish and short." Without any smileys

marks662 commented 198 days ago.
I don't make "mean responses." I sent a PRIVATE message to keep it civil, and not bring it out in the open, because THAT'S how to be civil on a discussion board. Nobody likes a troll! You can't take it when someone disagrees with you?

numbah16tdhaha commented 198 days ago.
Now now, trolls are anonymous, and I've been anything but that. Its funny that you think I can't stand to be disagreed with. I don't get to debate anything if everyone agrees, and that would make RIA rather dull. Moving along, I see that the jaws of the mental trap I've laid have wrapped themselves firmly around your brain, so for now I'll let you struggle as you try fruitlessly to dictate my behavior to me. Feel free to keep digging...

Gris commented 198 days ago.
Maybe if there were more smileys in the 1500's life wouldn't have been so brutish and nasty.

irishgit commented 198 days ago.
1600's Gris, but who's counting, at least if you're talking about Hobbes. And as far as my experience goes, life is brutish, nasty and short, with or without smileys.

Gris commented 198 days ago.
Ah, it was a thought anyway. Guess there's Nothing you can do then, about this Hellish existance of ours.

Victor83 commented 198 days ago.
"Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone."

pugwash01 commented 198 days ago.
Hey I agree with most of you to a point but putting the Old Testament as an old way is saying that the Old Testament is void because of the New. (The Old Testament is not void!!!!) If you look through all of Gods word you will see a set of laws and wants for GODS people; I’m sorry to say homosexuality is outlawed in both the old and new testament. But here is a fact that many don't see; these rulings are for Christians and Christians should abstain from such practices. When God breathed his word it was to show what a Christian should and should not do in his/her walk with God. People neglect to see that God knows that people who do not follow Christ will be sinful and do what they want! We need to be very careful as Christians not to judge the unsaved and those who do things that we understand through Gods word to be wrong. God is the one who convicts and helps someone to the mercy seat. Yes I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but that in no way means I must shun or hate those that practice such things! For I had my faults and sins that nailed Christ to the cross too!!! Victor kind of has it in a nutshell!!!!
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