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Roberto Clemente

reviewed by jman1961

jman1961
06/20/2009

Roberto Clemente 4

Poster 'CapAnson' is right on with his post: Clemente was a great player, but not the best. Whatever Willie Mays had to say about him was inflated by professional courtesy. He's not Mays, not Aaron, not Mantle. Great player who is easily among the top 50 position players all-time, but nowhere near the top 10.

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Steve Widdoes commented 140 days ago.
Inman'61/capAnson and the other insanebermetric dudes are following a dying religion. Google: 'Clemente played in an airport'. Clemente is universally regarded as the VERY TOP defensively; more importantly he has the TOP success stats against hall of fame pitching. This dying religion wants home runs to trump ability to hit the very best pitchers. I hit homers in my day, but I didn't hit them against the pitchers who were being watched by the scouts! Ironically, Clemente has more tape measure shots than most of the 500+ homer dudes...he hit line drives because he had greater skills than the others. Home runs are mostly about trajectory(spin on the ball makes it rise) Clementes shots were more solid and got to the wall much faster(Tear down the mission or at least the fences!!!). The list of mgrs/ex-players who say either Mays/Clemente were the real inner circle is to great to ignore as simply anecdotal comment. Unfortunately: Sabremetric data when massaged always points to Ruth, where pertinent data or simply watching Clemente the greater tRUTH.

Doctor of Madness commented 140 days ago.
If you never watched him play, he made everything that he did appear to be effortless. He never showboated, he never brought attention to himself, he just played all facets of baseball as well as anyone ever has!

jman1961 commented 140 days ago.
(Edited 140 days ago)
'Simply watching' is subjective. You don't like sabremetrics, obviously, but then baseball is drenched in statistics. And I didn't have Clemente's career stats next to me as I typed, nor did I reference them at all in my review.
Strike one.
You write your comment as if I dismissed Clemente as an average player. I didn't do that.
Strike two.
But to follow up on what you said, I can say with nearly metaphysical certainty that no one who saw Ruth and Clemente play (Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio, for example, and there were many others), would EVER rate Clemente as the better player, or even as good.
It's like the crock that Reggie Jackson was a great clutch hitter; he was NOT (but he was an OK one). That was a perception built almost entirely on ONE game: game 6 of the 1977 World Series.
Clemente's legacy was built on a stellar career, yes. But it was inflated as well after his tragic death while providing aid to earthquake survivors in Nicaragua.
Oh, and if you want to talk up baseball, I'd like that! But throwing a cute remark in the first line of your comment ('insanebermetrics') is rude. You don't even know who the hell I am. And you don't bother to provide a specific about just what this 'pertinent data' is that we acolytes of "a dying religion" should be relying on.
Strike three.

And no one has to massage ANYTHING to show Ruth for what he was; the best all around player that the game has EVER seen. The stats AND the observations (fans, teammates and opposing players) attest to that.
Now, if Clemente could pitch............

Doctor of Madness commented 140 days ago.
Looking at Babe Ruth the pitcher and Babe Ruth the hitter, he is the best baseball player ever. That being said, Clemente was a wonderful player.
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By the Numbers