RateItAll: The Opinion Network

While illegals may be looking to work when they come here. As I stated before this country has laws and there are legal ways to come here and laws that must be followed.

The veracity of this argument, namely "immigrants just want to work", can be measured by a demographic historical fact: Those who move tend to be ambitious and somewhat educated yet economically disadvantaged. This isn't to say that some immigrants do not come with malicious intent, but the majority are simply looking for a better quality of life. Nevertheless, while this statement may be true, it isn't definitive. Yes, business needs the cost of low-skilled labor to be efficient and reflective of the value added. Wages for illegal labor are probably more correct than the artificially inflated costs of domestic labor, hence the pull from business and the push from foreign countries. Modern welfare states tend to pay a substantial portion of its citizens to be idle, and that vacuum will be filled somehow. Remove that payment (and the related expectations), and the vacuum will be filled with domestic labor. I will also add that Magellan's argument that there are more important issues to worry about is a hollow argument in and of itself. Such logic would also eliminate all law enforcement save for murders (for instance). Moreover, illegal immigration is related to other pressing matters (e.g. national defense, public spending, and national identity). The bottom line is that this statement is undoubtedly true and has merit, but doesn't suffice alone and must be analyzed along with other aspects of the issue.

To a certain extent they do, but if I crossed into another country illegally I would be considered an invader and would promptly be shot. Think of that the next time you think the U.S. is being unfair.

Bring this argument to the UK and see the response you'll get. Explain that to the 1,000 criminals who came here from other Eurpoean countries due to the European Union thanks to the lovely Charles Clarke and his "strict" immigration rules. Most immigrants DON'T want to work in the UK as they know we're the bigger fools and pay for everything from childcare to their maintenance in this country which is just obscene. The majority of them give the small minority who do want to work and build England into a better country a really bad name. Now the ones who wish to sponge off the state bypass France, Spain and other European countries because they know once they hit England their onto a winner. This wouldn't have happend in the 60's ask my parents they came here from Africa and the West Indies they had the choice to either work or go back home.

**whoops, i reversed the ratings scale**

** and TB, where you lose me is on this stuff: "don't want to see it brought down to a banana republic by a stream of criminals who have no intention of being loyal to the United States let alone becoming citizens."

That's the second time you've hinted ominously about the "loyalty" of immigrants. Do you have any facts to support this? **

Nah, this is a powerful argument. I admire people who work hard, and I will never support the vilification of hard working (though illegal) immigrants.

Yes we need to have enforcable laws around our borders, and a rational approach for how to deal with the millions of illegal immigrants already here.

But I will not lose track of the fact that were talking about a group of people whose crime is wanting to work.

In my mind, the escalation of this political issue over stuff like: 1) Catastrophic congressional spending; 2) A political climate that consists of the incompetent (Republicans) vs. the incoherent (Democrats); 3) the lack of any progress on an energy policy to wean us from the black stuff; 4) a deteriorating system in the Middle East whose failing architects (Rumsfeld) are not being held accountable; 5) our continuing inability to find Osama bin Laden.

is lunacy, and distracting us from the stuff that is most important.

I know who the enemies are, and it's not those Mexican dudes on my block who are working 80 hour weeks.

This is true of most immigrants. However, there are many gangsters, parasites and assorted riff-raff that come to the US-often to exploit their more respectable cousins. That is why illegal immigration simply can't be tolerated-we have to have a processing system to keep out criminals. Update: Magellan is correct in noting that the issue of illegal immigration has been manipulated and hyped to divert attention from other problems. However, it remains a very serious problem, and anyone living in San Francisco should realize that organized crime is largely an immigrant phenomenon, as is terrorism. Both would exist without illegal immigration, or sloppy immigration screening; but these have made things much, much worse. Letting anyone in the world into the US, no questions asked, is simply foolish.