RateItAll: The Opinion Network

It's a documented fact that the downfall of Native American society is directly attributable to his liberal immigration policies.

Yes, legal and authorized to entry immigrants. Not a no man's land.

This is part true and part false. The people who came here were either settlers or immigrants. Settlers built new farms, townships, cities, counties, states out of raw land. They started with nothing and made something. Immigrants, almost by definition, if you think about it, come to a settled area that already has development. This was true until the closing of the frontier in 1890, although homesteading continued up to and probably a little after the First World War.

While this may be true. We are not talking about people who came here through legal means. We are talking about people who knowingly come here illegally. I cannot go to Mexico and break the law and expect to be made a Mexican citizen. I can expect to spend 3 years in a Mexican jail or expect to pay a hefty fine to save my behind. Get the point....

After perusing the prior comments, most seem to discuss the (primarily illegal) immigration issue rather than this specific argument used in favor of same, namely that "America is a nation of immigrants". While this statement is without question true, such an argument is nothing but empty rhetoric as it pertains to the current debate. First, times change and as a result public policy does as well. (How do those who hang their hats on this argument feel about the argument that marriage has always just been between men and women?) The U.S. is based on a relatively common way of thinking rather than ethnicity (as is the case with the nation states of Europe for instance). Earlier immigration waves helped set that mindset, but do contemporary waves reconcile with same? Moreover, the modern welfare state has an interest in some standards of social homogeneity (e.g. a relatively uniform reproduction strategy) and a "closed" demographic pool (assuming fiscal responsibility); however, uncontrolled immigration, especially those who are no longer forced (as a practical matter) to assimilate, is a threat to the efficient functioning of such a welfare state. Critics often truthfully state that history tells us that immigrant families assimilate by the third generation, but the percentage of Americans that are first generation is the highest in history, and the forces to require or encourage assimilation have never been weaker. This alone makes comparing earlier to modern immigration akin to proverbial apples and oranges. The bottom line is that this one is an empty one-star argument.

It should say, "America is a nation of illegal immigrants."

We have a government that makes it extremely hard for those immigrants who want to do things the lawful way to get into our country and yet they make it extremely easy for an illegal to cross over. Our President has dropped the ball on this issue, 97% of the Democrats and a handful of Republicans have shown they are willing to do nothing that will really help this matter. They are all too busy pandering votes.

I have no problem with Mexicans, Cubans or whoever want to come over, but do the things the RIGHT way, the LAWFUL way! OBEY our laws and assimilate into our culture and become Americans, or as over 80% of America has said, stay where you are!!!

. . .the vast majority of them were legal. . .

Much of the argument on illegal immigration focuses on how these criminals are crapping on legitimate US citizens. Forgotten is the point that they are crapping on the good immigrants who entered legally, paid their fees, and have a genuine desire to become a part of this great nation legitimately.

Anyone that has any logic or has taken logic courses knows that this argument holds no water. Because change is constant you cannot state that what was good will always be good.

Yes, immigration waves are a deep part of American history. However, this is a weak argument toward illegal immigration issues, since laws requiring paths of documentation have long been the tradition.

Even if the U.S. decided to make gaining American citizenship easier, wouldn't it make more sense to favor those who have been earning it by taking legal pathways? Exactly why would we extend political favors toward the illegal side of immigration over those legally documented, and what do our ancestors have to do with that?

For me, though I certainly agree that illegal immigration is a big problem, there simply would be something hypocritical and unjust as, largely, a descendant of potato boat refugees and rural Italian peasants to be frothing at the mouth while hating on immigrants, though if you wanna see a real foul and dangerous crew of immigrants, take a time machine back to 1600's Puritan Massachusetts to catch what were, essentially, a comparable bunch to The Taliban...

Nicely put by Kamy. I also agree with Numbah's point about the importance of a shared identity (but haven't seen many first generation immigration flipping the bird at that identity)

I too was sort of confused by the submittor's bizarre little rant - yes, we are a nation of immigrants.

Rather than deny that we are a nation of immigrants, if I were the submittor and trying to discredit this particular argument, I would probably point out that we are also a nation of laws.

To deny that we are a nation of immigrants is almost as confusing an argument as the one used by that guy who keeps posting about the "Clinton Recession."

Interesting how the "submitter" of this topic refers to the statement as being made from "brainless idiots"; does he deny that, somewhere down the line, their ancestors are immigrants? I've already had this tired argument already. Just because you can't REMEMBER any ancestors who came over doesn't mean they didn't EXIST.

And what's so special about European immigrants that they're "okay" to come over, but every other race is a "foreigner"? I don't remember anything in my American History classes about any Europeans getting an engraved invitation to hang out from the various tribes that were already here (the ONLY people who would have any right to even remotely call themselves "Native" Americans).

This statement should in no way "excuse" illegal immigration by any stretch. However, anti-immigration types use this against ANY immigrants, legal or not.

If only they could go back in time and tell THEIR ancestors that "they're not welcome" and to "go home" . . . .

There is something to this I guess, but I think we all make a choice somewhere along the line to be something more than an immigrant. Sure, we are too diverse to have a singular national identity, but if we met another American while we were abroad somewhere we would stop and talk for a minute. I have. Why, you ask? Because we are Americans, I guess, so when it hits the fan I suppose we look out for eachother. Maybe that fragment of identity is the difference, and maybe if the current immigrants at least take on that fragment instead of flipping the bird at we might all get along better.

This slogan is often trotted out by immigrants and non-immigrants, but it is a blatant untruth. The vast majority of Americans are not immigrants. America stopped being a nation of immigrants a long time ago. However, if current immigration levels continue, America will once again be a nation of immigrants, but it won't be America anymore. A nation of immigrants indeed. This dog won't hunt, and hasn't flushed a quail for at least 200 years.